Friday, September 18, 2009

I have a bad habit

of not pointing out racism when I see it because it is obvious and other people are pointing it out already. But I do sometimes point out that I think something that other people are calling racism ISN'T racism. Thus, I'm later accused of NEVER seeing racism since I only seem to point at things that I think aren't racist.

So, for the record, from that clip from that's going around where one of the guys who made the ACORN film is getting interviewed and the interviewer goes: "So let's get this straight: you're NOT a pimp?"

And the little shit responds, "No. I'm like the whitest guy ever."

Yes, kids, that's racism.

CC
who wouldn't have bothered if her whole blogroll was writing about this, but for once she's the first.

47 comments:

hafidha sofia said...

I'm so happy I don't have people sending me clips or news of crap like that. My psyche just couldn't take it. Instead, I get all of the woo-woo and conspiracy emails. But I'll take woo-woo links over racist links any day. Occasionally, I'll get a "Obama is going to fly the Communist China flag at the White House TOMORROW" email, which sucks, but whatever.

PG said...

WIN.

Bill Baar said...

So you think O'Keefe and Giles targeted ACORN because they're racists?

Chalicechick said...

O'Keefe is the same guy who called like a billion Planned Parenthood offices offering to donate money for the purpose of aborting black babies. He cherrypicked the calls that made Planned Parenthood sound like a racist organization and gave them to the media.

He got more famous because he got a woman to come to abortion clinics with him, pretending to that the woman was an underage girl he had impregnated. The clinics that helped her request the abortion without incriminating her boyfriend for statutory rape, which is what she said she wanted, also ended up on the news for helping a child abuser get his victim an abortion.

Though O'Keefe certainly seems like a racist if he thinks pimps are all non-white or at least jokes about it on national television, my assumption is that O'Keefe did this mostly because he'd gotten some fame out of it the last few times he did something very similar.

CC

Bill Baar said...

If he's that famous for this kind of stunt, ACORN should have posted his picture.

I never heard of him before, and no nothing about him. I know more about ACORN than him.

Kids (meaning people under 30 or 35) use words in ways that don't quite mean what they mean to my ears.

I'm still adjusting to sickest meaning good (I guess).

I haven't watched all the tapes but what I've seen has been pretty damning. The one I saw the most of was the White ACORN staffer in California listening to the guy saying he wanted to run for Congress and fund the campaign with proceeds from teen prostitutes.

The staffer gave him advice and explained how ACORN had political connections and she named names of the pols.

That's an outfit I don't want stimulus money going too, even if their defense is they were just playing along. It didn't look like it to me.

But then I know more about ACORN in Chicago than I do about any of these players.

Chalicechick said...

(((That's an outfit I don't want stimulus money going too, even if their defense is they were just playing along. It didn't look like it to me.)))

Oh, come on, Bill, be straight with me, big city person to big city person. Color notwithstanding, you know what real prostitutes look like, and you know what real inner-city tough guys look like.

Look at those two kids.

Honestly. Do they look like prostitute and her criminal boyfriend or do they look like two college kids on their way to a "Pimp and Ho" frat party?

And listen to how they talk.

Do you really think that ACORN representatives, who deal with inner-city folks all the time, would be fooled?

CC

PG said...

The staffer gave him advice and explained how ACORN had political connections and she named names of the pols.

And then she confessed to having killed her husband. And when the cops made the mistake of believing O'Keefe and Giles, they discovered that her exes are all alive and well.

Yes, Bill, there was a total absence of sarcasm and "I'm putting you on" on her side.

Bill Baar said...

Do you really think that ACORN representatives, who deal with inner-city folks all the time, would be fooled?

Your watching to many CSI episodes CC.

Good hustlers of any hustle don't look like characters out of TV.

Yes, ACORN representatives who deal with inner-city folks can be fooled. These tapes show just that.

Chalicechick said...

Erm... That was my point. I didn't ask you to compare them to people you've seen on TV. I asked you to compare them to people you've seen on street corners. I've seen the low income neighborhood tough guys and I've seen hookers.

And I've seen college kids going to costume parties.

The kids on the video look like college kids to me and they certainly TALK like college kids. If they look real to you then you're the one who watches too much CSI.

In at least one video, the representative asks "Are you guys reporters?" the minute they came through the door.

Does that sound like someone who was fooled?

And I would really doubt that a 61 year old woman would claim to be an ex-husband murdering former hooker with political connections if she thought the people in front of her were serious.

But hey, that woman fooled you...

CC

Bill Baar said...

But hey, that woman fooled you...

ACORN's never fooled me enough to support funding them before, or after these tapes came to light.

This outfit has no business getting Federal or State funds.

Chalicechick said...

Shrug.

Nobody said you had to.

CC
who has never financially supported them either, but she hadn't even heard of them until conservative pundits played their little game about the voter registrations.

Bill Baar said...

ACORN's big in Chicago. I'm curious to see if a tape emerges from Chicago but I think the mob and gangs and their sponsers in Government and Politics and you would really go to them first before you went to ACORN for the property. The ACORN people would want to know you sent you? before they'd let you in the door. We don't want nobody nobody sent is the phrase, and the YouTube age shows the wisdom of that.

PG said...

ACORN's never fooled me enough to support funding them before, or after these tapes came to light.

Non-sequitur. Bill's apparently still convinced, despite the very-much-aliveness of this woman's ex-husbands, that everything she was saying was stuff she believed with the utmost sincerity rather than to yank these kids' chains.

Bill Baar said...

Blogger tangled an earlier response, so... despite the very-much-aliveness of this woman's ex-husbands, that everything she was saying was stuff she believed

Far from it PG. I've never believed anything ACORN's said. I've assumed there is a lie in everything they say.

Ann Compton over at ABC just discoverd the very old story on ACORN's cover up of Dale Radke's embezzelment of nearly a million back in 1999 2000.

Dale the brother of aging former SDS Radical and ACORN founder Wade Radke.

They're out to be a fully Congressional investigation of every dime ACORN's received from the Feds for decades.

O'Keefe and Giles deserve a Pulizters for these tapes...

....and when a old white Radical shakes down a community group for a million bucks, taking money intended for the poor... is that racist?

If O'Keefe and Giles are labeled racist for exposing this outfit, what are we to say of the white radical who embesseled from it?

Call in the gumshoes from GAO. I've never believed a word from ACORN people's mouths. Nothing's caused me to change.

Chalicechick said...

(((If O'Keefe and Giles are labeled racist for exposing this outfit, what are we to say of the white radical who embesseled from it?)))

OK, Bill have you ACTUALLY SEEN anyone make the argument that O'Keefe and Giles are racist for what they did?

Or are you inventing an argument the other side COULD be making but isn't and arguing against that rather than actually arguing against something people are saying?

CC
and no, pointing out that something O'Keefe said was racist is NOT the same thing as calling him racist for doing something totally different.

Bill Baar said...

...pointing out that something O'Keefe said was racist is NOT the same thing as calling him racist for doing something totally different...

It's a pretty fine distinction.

ACORN CEO Betha Lewis said This is racist or something!

I think she means ACORN a target of racists.

I suppose we could parse that different ways, but I think that's the point, and I think it's wrong.

Chalicechick said...

(((It's a pretty fine distinction.))))

Actually, it's really not.

It's the difference between making up a reason for why the person who disagrees with you believes as they do and using their actual stated reason.

(((ACORN CEO Betha Lewis said This is racist or something!)))

You do realize that when you give me a quote like that, I look it up.

If you were to look at the ACORN CEO's statement "this is racist or something!" IN CONTEXT in the interview where she says it, you would see that she recognizes that O'Keefe has pulled his little tricks on Planned Parenthood before while acting like a middle class person, but that she finds DRESSING AS A PIMP AND PROSTITUTE to trick an organization that serves black and brown people, as if you have to be a pimp or prostitute to fit in*, racist in itself.

As for the MOTIVATION, rather than saying anything about racism on that topic, she seems to believe that this guy was motivated by his agenda and by the fame and money he got from his Planned Parenthood shenanigans. (As in, exactly what I said in the 4th post on this thread.)

She also recognizes that O'Keefe has figured out that he can call 100 Planned Parenthood offices and visit 100 ACORN offices and then only release the footage of the five targets that fell for his game or appeared to and he will get lots of fame and people will assume he deserves a Pulitzer**.

Nice work if you can get it.

Anyway, do you see how what the ACORN CEO is really saying differs from what you were saying she was saying?

CC

*And again, this is a man who essentially said he was too white to be a pimp. I'd say the ACORN CEO is right on the money when she says he felt like he had to be dressed as a pimp to infiltrate a black organization.

**Jay Leno, who pioneered the field by figuring out that you can ask 200 people on the street who lives at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue, and put the one person who doesn't know on TV and mock them, can share the Pulitzer with him.

Bill Baar said...

Anyway, do you see how what the ACORN CEO is really saying differs from what you were saying she was saying?

Nope

ACORN got caught doing stuff on tape that flipped Congress from funding them millions to defunding them; and a probably investigation on the millions they've recieved over the years.

Now they want to talk about Racism. That's what I see.

Call me a babe, but people lie through there teeth -- or change the subject to racism-- when millions of dollars involved: white or black, yellow or brown...alike.

Chalicechick said...

So as long as she mentioned race at all, you can misrepresent what she said? If you're going to be that dishonest, what's the point of arguing with you at all? You're just going to make up your facts anyway.

I doubt that what she actually said interests you since making up your own facts is easier but for what it's worth, she said very little about race in that video and admitted the wrongdoing of those employees first.

I have no problem with someone who admits the problem also pointing out that those pointing at her have problems of her own.

PG said...

Far from it PG. I've never believed anything ACORN's said. I've assumed there is a lie in everything they say.

So why do you assume they were sincerely trying to give advice to a purported "pimp" and "ho"? That certainly seems to be the premise of everything you've said on the subject: that you believe the ACORN folks really were trying to advise the pimp and ho. Now you're saying that since ACORN employees are intractable liars, they actually weren't sincerely trying to advise them? In that case, what's the fuss about?

So as long as she mentioned race at all, you can misrepresent what she said? If you're going to be that dishonest, what's the point of arguing with you at all? You're just going to make up your facts anyway.

Cough. Cough.

Bill Baar said...

So why do you assume they were sincerely trying to give advice to a purported "pimp" and "ho"?

The one cited may not have been. The others where. None of them looked to be doing much good.

So as long as she mentioned race at all, you can misrepresent what she said?

She labeled O'Keefe a racist based on something done in the past, but the intent was to discredit O'Keefe for what he did in the ACORN interviews. Everything subsequent done by O'Keefe tainted by something done past that forever tainted him racist.

Chalicechick said...

((((She labeled O'Keefe a racist based on something done in the past,)))

No, she labeled him a racist because he thinks he has to be a pimp to pass as a client at an ACORN office. Though, yes, she also mentioned that in his previous stings, he felt no need to pretend to be a pimp, that wasn't her central point.

She did not say that anything he had done in the past made him a racist.

CC

Bill Baar said...

No, she labeled him a racist because he thinks he has to be a pimp to pass as a client at an ACORN office.

And ACORN bit the bait. Whether all those ACORN staffers understood O'Keefe and Giles to be real or not, they certainly went along.

If someone presents me with a plan for a crime, I call the police. When someone presents me with a story about a crime they committed, I call the police.

ACORN didn't. Watch the tapes to see what they did, and ask yourself if these are the folks you want in your neigborhood with millions in federal funds to dish out as they see fit.

There is a kind of racism in handing organizations like this millions, and then not paying much attention to them, for fear perhapes of being called racist.

I've had the odd experience of being in the room with these ACORN folks as staff to an AA executive and having ACORN Community activists call him a racist. There is usually a financial story behind it all.... money is what talks.

Chalicechick said...

((((If someone presents me with a plan for a crime, I call the police.)))

Do you ever get any response other than "call us back when something illegal has actually occurred"?

There's really not much the police can do if all you can give them is "This guy was thinking he might do this illegal thing."

That's certainly not enough for a search warrant, to say nothing of an arrest.

(((Whether all those ACORN staffers understood O'Keefe and Giles to be real or not, they certainly went along. )))

As you keep forgetting, actually several offices claim to have thrown them out and called the police, though only Philly can prove it.

And yes, a couple of offices played around with them.

But no office did any paperwork or actually did anything to help them other than humor them for a few minutes, which my experience in poltics and law suggests is the fastest way to get a crazy person out of your office without them making a scene.

CC

PG said...

And yes, a couple of offices played around with them.

But no office did any paperwork or actually did anything to help them other than humor them for a few minutes, which my experience in poltics and law suggests is the fastest way to get a crazy person out of your office without them making a scene.


Bingo. Bill, do you have evidence that ACORN did anything like file a form with the government on behalf of these kids? Again, you're convinced that whatever you see on videos from O'Keefe and Giles must be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth ... rather than their editing of what occurred.

Chalicechick said...

I'm still on Bill calling the police every time there's a theoretical future crime mentioned, no matter how far fetched...


"Yes, Officer Mathers, my sister-in-law told my brother over Thanksgiving dinner that if he ever cheated on her, she'd suffocate him with a pillow. My brother says they always talk that way and she was just kidding around, but I thought I should call you and report it."

"Officer Mathers, it's me again, yeah, my niece Kelly says that if Bobby Jenkins doesn't take her to the prom she's going to jump of a bridge, and seeing how suicide is a crime, I thought I should call..."

"Yeah, Matt, it's Bill again. Grandma says that cousin Carly's baby is so cute that she could eat her up..."


I certainly hope he uses the non-emergency number.

CC

Bill Baar said...

Bill, do you have evidence that ACORN did anything like file a form with the government on behalf of these kids?

No, not at all. All I saw was enough to convince me ACORN should be defunded (and that doesn't require a crime), and enough that I think an audit / investigation should be done on the many millions already given to ACORN to see in fact if they have been financing brothels and human trafficking...among other things.

I wouldn't just dismiss what's been seen as a weird sort of puffing, or playing along by ACORN staff in some game on the assumption O'Keefe and Giles were obvious racists.

Here's a good History of ACORN and SEIU Local 880 and their work with Obama by the way. Written by Keith Kelleher, Local 880s head organizer. Growth of a Modern Union Local: A People's History of SEIU Local 880.

Bill Baar said...

Officer Mathers, it's me again, yeah, my niece Kelly says that if Bobby Jenkins doesn't take her to the prom she's going to jump of a bridge, and seeing how suicide is a crime, I thought I should call...

Suicides have touched.

You have no idea how I wish I had called.

Chalicechick said...

"Matt, I know it's Christmas Eve, but my granddaughter says she has reason to believe that a fat man in a red suit is going to break into our house through the chimney tonight. I'm sure this is just like when I reported on Halloween that Freddy Kreuger was on my doorstep trying to extort candy, but you know it's my civic duty to report all potential criminal plans"

Anyway...


(((I wouldn't just dismiss what's been seen as a weird sort of puffing, or playing along by ACORN staff in some game on the assumption O'Keefe and Giles were obvious racists.)))

I don't think they were obvious racists*, I think they were obvious fakes. Keep in mind one of the offices asked them if they were reporters the minute they walked in the door. It's on one of the tapes.

But, again, impersonating a hooker is not a crime and having a theoretical conversation about how you might commit a crime isn't a crime either, so I'm not sure what you expected ACORN to report to the cops.

CC

*I didn't call O'Keefe a racist until he declared himself too white to be a pimp on TV.

Chalicechick said...

There are lots of people you can call in those circumstances, but the police are a VERY poor choice* and would not have done anything anyway in the scenario I painted.

At the same time, I'm sorry if I wrote something triggering.

CC

*Especially if they think the person might have a gun. Also, because some people who can't quite bring themselves to do it to themselves kill themselves by attacking cops.

Bill Baar said...

Police is generic for someone in a position of authority. Sometimes that's been me.

I'm very attuned to language of violence. Someone expresses ideation of violence against themselves or others I don't ignore them. Whether that means calling a cop, a parent, the boss, I've just seen too many bad outcomes.

Same goes for talk of any crime committed past or planned for the future.

PS You didn't trigger anything. It's just with age you look back on your life and realize how many times you did nothing when you should have acted. I've also had a barrage of sucide training from deployment (every other commercial on AFN was about it). Someone talks about suicide or displays these signs, here is the call you make.

Chalicechick said...

And I am admittedly used to teenagers, Texans and my husband, all of whom tend to express things in melodramatic ways.

CC

PG said...

I'm very attuned to language of violence. Someone expresses ideation of violence against themselves or others I don't ignore them. Whether that means calling a cop, a parent, the boss, I've just seen too many bad outcomes.

Really? Whenever someone says, "Man, I'd kill for a drink," you take that seriously as "ideation of violence"?

People must learn to speak very carefully and literally around you.

Bill Baar said...

People must learn to speak very carefully and literally around you.

Yes

Chalicechick said...

I went to a little hick college and my Freshman year roommate literally did not undestand sarcasm. Like, I had to explain that when someone used a certain tone of voice that you weren't supposed to take what they said at face value.

I would have thought she would have at least learned about sarcasm from TV, but she said "WHY don't you just SAY what you MEAN?" at least weekly for our first semester.

But even she understood exaggeration, metaphor and that sometimes people were just screwing around.

Bill Baar said...

My son's at Northern Illinois University. He was there when six were students shot dead. You go through these experiences and any kind of violent talk, sarcastic, silly, or not, and you take the talk very seriously.

PG said...

I went to a little hick college and my Freshman year roommate literally did not understand sarcasm. Like, I had to explain that when someone used a certain tone of voice that you weren't supposed to take what they said at face value.

I suppose this could arise from significant cultural differences (there are languages like Mandarin, Cantonese and Thai where intonation makes all the difference in what the word itself means, so I could see it being tricky to use a tone of voice also for whether one is being sincere or sarcastic; the only non-English language with which I'm culturally familiar definitely has sarcasm, since when I used to whine to my mom that I couldn't find something and she was frustrated, she would say in her native language "Ah, it's on top of my head").

Or even within the same culture, the inability to grasp sarcasm and other non-literal uses of language may stem from differences in how people's brains are wired, in terms of ability to interpret facial expression, gesture, tone of voice, etc. I don't think I've ever been in close communication with someone who categorically couldn't "get" sarcasm, metaphor, exaggeration and so forth, though. Even my formal and professional writing will have some of these, although I work for somewhat snarky people.

Chalicechick said...

((("Ah, it's on top of my head")))

And having lived in Texas, you're no doubt aware that a similar situation would lead a Texan to observe "If it had been a snake, it would have bit ya."

I go that A LOT as I grew up.

CC

Chalicechick said...

(((You go through these experiences and any kind of violent talk, sarcastic, silly, or not, and you take the talk very seriously.)))

Bill, as I've mentioned very recently, my mother has worked in the poorest part of DC for decades. Her windshield has been broken dozens of times (sometimes to steal things, sometimes apparently for sport) and she had her tires slashed when she decided to get some particularly nasty drug dealers out of the housing complex she was managing.

One day when I was in high school, she came home one day and said, very casually. "We're having another gang war at work, but don't tell your father, he'll just get upset."

And those are just the incidents she has told ME about.

Six people getting shot in the neighborhood where she works is a few weeks' worth.

She is not hypervigilent about violence because she couldn't function if she were and because she thinks it's pointless. Gang wars, drug dealers or not, she just goes to work every day, does her job and comes home.

I'm not holding her up as an ideal. I kinda wish she would see a therapist. But if every time you hear a little kid announce that she's "starving," you report her parents to child services for neglect as they are obviously putting her in mortal danger by not feeding her, then you should maybe see one too.

I think you're both weird extremes.

If nothing else, my mom is an example of how different people deal differently with these things and not everyone who has faced violence or knows someone she loves who faces it every day IS hypervigilent.

If that's the way you approach the world, that's your choice.

But on some level, it's a choice.

CC

Bill Baar said...

But if every time you hear a little kid announce that she's "starving," ....

You're involved in YRUU right? If a kid in your class announces he/she is hungry, you'd act, yes? Not report the parents, but you'd sort the situation out. If the kid was dirty, seemed abused, displayed any sort of distressed behavior, you'd something. You'd not being doing your job if you didn't.

What you do depends on the situation and event, and your responsbilitiy and circumstances, but you do something.

It's not hyper vigiliance. It's being situationally aware.

Go over to Universalist Christian and read my exchange with him over the hearsey he posted about a Military Chaplain with a poster offensive to Islam. I said who ever told him this story needs to turn the Chaplain in to his commander. If that doesn't work, you turn him in to the IG or follow the chain of command until you get it resolved.

We're free to speak in America but if you start speaking about violence, or crimes, or your parents abusing you, there are consequences to that kind of speech, and when you hear it, it shouldn't be ignored.

If someone walks into your mom's office and says they're going to do some crime, your Mom's obligated to act on it: whether she thinks the person a joker or not. She owes that to the community regardless of it's ethnicity or income.

Today we just can't ignore stuff like that. If the person is joking, then they need to me made aware they're consequences of those kinds of jokes regardless of the community.

Chalicechick said...

((((What you do depends on the situation and event, and your responsbilitiy and circumstances, but you do something.)))

So if you are in the mall and a well-dressed, slightly chubby kid goes "But, Mom, I don't want to wait until dinnertime! I want ice cream now, I'm STARVING"

You always do something?

Like, what?

I was with you up until then. Of course if someone says something that looks like it could be an issue in context, you do something about it. But those external clues you mentioned, or the lack of them, are important for determining context.

I have no problem being situationally aware. But part of being situationally aware is knowing when someone is joking, exaggerating for dramatic effect or just straight up lying.

Hypervigilence is ignoring those cues and taking every statement of "I'd kill for a drink" as someone announcing their intentions to murder the owner of the next beer they see.

(( if you start speaking about violence, or crimes, or your parents abusing you, there are consequences to that kind of speech, and when you hear it, it shouldn't be ignored.)))

I guess your theory is that getting child services to go after their parents will teach the little bastard not to exaggerate about his hunger when he walks by an ice cream stand. Or maybe he will LOVE all the attention he gets when you do that and make sure to yell it twice as loud next time he sees you.

Of course, all little kids exaggerate and I doubt there is any kid in the world who hasn't loudly said he or she is starving at some point. Or loudly announced that their brother or sister "broke" their still obviously intact arm. Or chewed a piece of toast into a gun shape and "shot" a sibling.*

But if you want to call child services every time, you're only helping to make family law a more profitable profession.

I shouldn't be arguing with you. I should be sending you a fruit basket.

CC

*Ok, I personally do not recall doing that but my brothers did it all the time. My parents hated it, especially when it was French toast with syrup.

PG said...

Today we just can't ignore stuff like that. If the person is joking, then they need to me made aware they're consequences of those kinds of jokes regardless of the community.

Bill, did you write the TSA's policy on joking about terrorism while at the airport? Regardless of whether you wrote it, do you sincerely believe that people who are actually ready to go on a terrorist plot will be discussing it at an airport where others can hear them?

There's a big difference between something that's unwise or in bad taste and something that has the potential to harm people. Perhaps where you live, the resources for dealing with threats are so infinite that they can afford to be wasted on jokes and exaggeration, but they aren't where I live. I take the New York City slogan "If you see something, say something" to mean "something that could involve an actual threat, not just the words of a threat coupled with every non-textual signal to show there's not actually a problem." Sheesh, if New Yorkers took every threat to punch the mayor seriously, the cops would have no time to deal with the very real threats we face.

It's really messed up to call the cops on someone for speech that isn't hurting anyone even if you specifically have trouble telling the difference between what's real and what's a joke. No wonder you were cool with Henry Louis Gates getting arrested -- how dare he refer to race for anything short of a lynching! there should be consequences for that!

I'm glad your attitude is rare. Otherwise, what a horrible, fearful, expression-crippling world to live in.

Bill Baar said...

Everything in life needs to be taken in context. So all of your hypotheticals have a context that makes action absurd.

But in real life, the rule of them is generally zero tolerance for any language of violence (or in the ACORN case, enslavement, which I consider violence).

If you've had small children in school you have to had encountered this. Stupid things kids say and do get them sent up, with a call to you to come in. My son draws circles with chalk on the wall at school, he's sent up and my wife comes to school with a bucket because the school has a rule of gang graffetti. We don't have gangs. My kid was drawing a circle with chalk. It's zero tolerance. I have zero tolerance for talk of violence and crime.

You talk to me about prostitution and ask my advice. I'll call a copy. It's a simple as that. Even if I think your joking. I don't like those kinds of jokes and neither to the cops.

Bill Baar said...

...did you write the TSA's policy on joking about terrorism while at the airport?M

No, but I've disciplined employees people for it.

PG said...

I don't like those kinds of jokes and neither to the cops.

Uh, I've actually heard cops joking about prostitution. Often in a way that's pretty disrespectful to sex workers and sometimes in a way that's disrespectful to women generally. But maybe Chicago cops are all such fine upstanding folks, they'd never do that.

Bill Baar said...

But maybe Chicago cops are all such fine upstanding folks...

They did a good job for me yesterday.

Chalicechick said...

I guess you had a better day than these folks did.