tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post8217144269709983300..comments2023-10-24T05:49:04.269-04:00Comments on The Chaliceblog: Fred Phelps and the Angry GodChalicechickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-82307192651139039372009-07-09T19:32:13.379-04:002009-07-09T19:32:13.379-04:00The Phelps people don't puzzle me at all. To m...The Phelps people don't puzzle me at all. To my view, they are a small group of people who are so full of fear that they dedicate their lives to making sure God sees them disavow the evils of our modern society. They are like the little kids or that pathological co-worker who is always saying "Look, look at what so-and-so did; I told them not to, because <b>I knew</b> it was wrong, but they didn't listen to me!" <br /><br />They <b>really</b> truly believe that their souls will be judged on in the afterlife, and that by standing up against the immorality of our society they are keeping their asses out of the hellfire. I mean, people have done more obnoxious things to keep themselves out of jail. Being burned to a crisp for infinity has got to be worse.hafidha sofianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-23264481993197069312009-07-04T15:09:00.188-04:002009-07-04T15:09:00.188-04:00Joel -- More likely the competent ones don't f...Joel -- More likely the competent ones don't feel the need to be terrorists.kimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-48071502760223582572009-07-02T17:28:24.490-04:002009-07-02T17:28:24.490-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Joel Monkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-71839153077250544982009-07-02T10:42:32.854-04:002009-07-02T10:42:32.854-04:00Joel,
The point about competency reminds me of th...Joel,<br /><br />The point about competency reminds me of <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124640443679876503.html" rel="nofollow">this WSJ editorial</a>.PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-67629789418327290142009-07-02T02:29:46.782-04:002009-07-02T02:29:46.782-04:00Joel -- That's a joke, right?Joel -- That's a joke, right?kimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-11908615109911758952009-07-02T02:28:03.221-04:002009-07-02T02:28:03.221-04:00Fausto -- You're right, Phelps doesn't see...Fausto -- You're right, Phelps doesn't seem to claim any relationship with love of any sort. His relationship with his family may or may not be a sign that he is capable of love or inspiring love. I've read an account of the family's life by two of the offspring who "escaped" from it, and if they are right, it may be the relationships of the family are the loyalty engendered by being the ones who aren't being abused while you watch the others be abused. I don't know the reality here, and don't really want to know more -- it's too creepy.kimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-10530774093731349702009-07-01T20:56:54.950-04:002009-07-01T20:56:54.950-04:00Just before leaving for GA the subject of conserva...Just before leaving for GA the subject of conservative extremists came up in conversation with my brother. I asked him why conservative extremists were more lethal than liberal... his answer came so quickly and easily I knew he thought it was obvious I'd kick myself for not seeing it instantly:"It's just a question of cempetence- conservatives are more competent than liberals even when they turn to the dark side."Joel Monkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-39938614814618623572009-07-01T20:34:04.419-04:002009-07-01T20:34:04.419-04:00Kim: this is what CC is refering to
http://en.wiki...Kim: this is what CC is refering to<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hall_bombing<br /><br />as far as I can recall, this is the only death attributed to Vietnam War protesters. most of the killings were of protesters rather than by protesters - i won't include the various battles between the Police and the Panthers. Certainly not the violence that Europe had in this timeframe.<br /> Certainly the left has had its terrorists - John Brown of the 1850s being the most famous.Steven Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14302958901026684328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-72550320070009272142009-07-01T17:24:45.377-04:002009-07-01T17:24:45.377-04:00I don't see Phelps as religious at all. I see...I don't see Phelps as religious at all. I see him as a psychopath using religion as a smokescreen.Comrade Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393718048145784837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-67624766182860844752009-07-01T17:22:17.665-04:002009-07-01T17:22:17.665-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Comrade Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393718048145784837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-15642101547863911392009-07-01T17:20:30.871-04:002009-07-01T17:20:30.871-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Comrade Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11393718048145784837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-46331662808685205582009-07-01T16:39:34.445-04:002009-07-01T16:39:34.445-04:00Kim, God is not something tangible that anyone can...Kim, God is not something tangible that anyone can see, as it says in 1 John 4. We relate to God (if we do at all) only through our own intuition and the witness of others. The witness of Genesis is that God looks upon all creation as good, and the witness of John, Luke, and other New Testament authors is that the primary character trait of God is love, especially love toward humanity.<br /><br />In spite of such witnesses, however, other biblical passages (especially some of the older and more morally and culturally immature tribal-historical sections) portray a harsher image of God. The various and superficially conflicting portraits of God in the Bible are either filtered through the life experiences of individual readers, or are discounted relative to the more immediate personal intuition, emotions, values, and life experiences of individual readers. Thus, what some "believers" apprehend to be God can easily be only a projection of themselves onto the blank canvas of the cosmos -- which is why some critics say ironically, but with justification, that man creates God in his own image. Depending on the intuition and personality of the individual, these personal projections can often be harsh and hurtful rather than healing and reconciling.<br /><br />I don't see any evidence that Phelps can't tell the difference between love and anger, but it's obvious eough to me that his image of God possesses little or no capacity for compassion or forgiveness. It is my guess, therefore, that Phelps does not effectively differentiate between his own uglier personality traits and the best and most noble elements of the human imagination. The loyalty of his family suggests to me that he knows what love is, but the reprehensibility of his behavior also suggests to me that he feels more comfortable nurturing the baser rather than the nobler elements of his psyche. That being the case, his God does not resemble the transcendent, benevolent God apprehended by John or Origen or Francis of Assisi or Charles Chauncy or John Murray, but rather, is nothing more than the personal fears and resentments of Fred Phelps projected onto a cosmic stage.<br /><br />Why do you suspect that he may think anger <i>is</i> love? I've heard nothing from him to suggest that he wants to affirm love as the essential element of God's character, but misunderstands how God manifests it. Rather, I agree with CC that he sees hatred and punishment as the most essential divine traits.faustohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858053354116695746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-46160015993364593342009-07-01T15:12:35.367-04:002009-07-01T15:12:35.367-04:00Fausto -- I was asking about the love/anger part. ...Fausto -- I was asking about the love/anger part. <br />I agree about the righteousness part.kimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-43577989813517891962009-07-01T15:10:03.612-04:002009-07-01T15:10:03.612-04:00CC -- Can you tell me the specific incident you we...CC -- Can you tell me the specific incident you were thinking of? We aren't remembering it specifically. <br /><br />Fausto -- Is that a guess or do you have some reason from something Phelps said to think that?kimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-7618864929564962952009-07-01T12:58:36.801-04:002009-07-01T12:58:36.801-04:00Kim, I don't think he mistakes anger for love,...Kim, I don't think he mistakes anger for love, but I do think he mistakes hostility and combativeness for righteousness.faustohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858053354116695746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-2777051762662839222009-07-01T12:48:02.132-04:002009-07-01T12:48:02.132-04:00My understanding is that the liberals who did kill...My understanding is that the liberals who did kill people in the 1960's tried to kill as few people as possible, and regarded those who did die as collateral damage when they did kill people through negligence or just because they had to. <br /><br />Oklahoma City notwithstanding, in general "kill a few people and get on the news" has seemed to be the conservative extremist killer agenda, when it isn't "Kill a specific abortion doctor."<br /><br />I see dying because you were the night janitor at the draft board and dying because you happened to go to a liberal church as roughly equivilent. <br /><br />CCChalicechickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-22374514667799671092009-07-01T12:41:59.054-04:002009-07-01T12:41:59.054-04:00Did extremeist liberals kill people in the sixties...Did extremeist liberals kill people in the sixties? I thought they just blew up buildings at times they were likely to be empty of people (as opposed to right wing extremists who prefer to blow up buildings when they are likely to be full of people.)<br /><br />Fausto -- Perhaps Phelps is sick enough to see anger as love?kimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-65163614387087512792009-07-01T12:38:15.175-04:002009-07-01T12:38:15.175-04:00That Angry God is something that we Unitarians and...That Angry God is something that we Unitarians and Universalists have been arguing against at least since the time of <a href="http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/Heralds/Charles-Chauncy.php" rel="nofollow">Charles Chauncy</a> in the mid-1700's, or else at least since the time of <a href="http://www.romancatholicism.org/origen-apokatastasis.htm" rel="nofollow">Origen</a> in the early 200's, depending on how you count -- and our <a href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html" rel="nofollow">Christian predecessors</a> at least since someone writing under the name of "John" wrote the <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=i%20john%204:16-21;&version=31;" rel="nofollow">First Epistle of John</a> sometime in the late first or early second century.<br /><br />"God is love", wrote John; and Phelps, like all those before him who have embraced the same arguments and cast similar judgments, is a blasphemer.faustohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858053354116695746noreply@blogger.com