tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post113839952693784156..comments2023-10-24T05:49:04.269-04:00Comments on The Chaliceblog: Where were you?Chalicechickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138505222383860692006-01-28T22:27:00.000-05:002006-01-28T22:27:00.000-05:00Right, but...A. In every previous hijacking I can ...Right, but...<BR/><BR/>A. In every previous hijacking I can think of excluding the munich bombing, a majority of the passengers survived after the plane was rerouted or a ransom was paid. Given that, why the hell would you shoot down a hijacked plane full of people?<BR/><BR/>B. I don't want anybody shooting down a plane over New York City OR Washington DC. (It's very interesting to contemplate how liberals would have reacted if they HAD shot down, say, the second flight intended for the rich white people of the WTC and it had veered off course and killed a thousand people in Harlem instead.)<BR/><BR/>C. They had the best chance at shooting down the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania. But it wouldn't have crashed in Pennsylvania if the passengers hadn't fought back and taken the flight. I'm kind of glad that those people died at the hands of terrorists rather than dying at the hands of us, particularly since they themselves kept the plane from hitting the target. <BR/><BR/><BR/>CCChalicechickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138504472173511402006-01-28T22:14:00.000-05:002006-01-28T22:14:00.000-05:00Kim, if you heard they could have had a fighter al...Kim, if you heard they could have had a fighter alongside the airliner in 5 minutes, you heard wrong. It doesn't even make sense- absent a state of national emergency, there is no military necessity for that kind of reaction time, because our satelite and DEW line early warning systems give much longer warnings of attack- form 45 minutes to 2 hours, depending on the kind of attack. The only way they could have had a fighter alongside in five minutes is if they kept a plane idling on the runway 24/7, just waiting for a hijack suicide attack- and even then, they'd have to get permission to break the sound barrier over populated areas to get there in time. Do you think that's normal operating procedure for every time a plane got close to the city? Planes are STILL flying over major cities every day- look at the accident at Midway, Chicago, where a plane ran off the end of the runway, through a fence- and hit a car on a city street! Look, a big airliner cruises at some 8 miles a minute at altitude, and 4-6 miles a minute on approach... there are hundreds of them within minutes of major targets at any given moment. There was no program to intercept them before they got close to the towers pre 9/11, and even now there's little chance an interception would work, which is why they're so careful before the plane leaves the ground. Nobody arranged for those planes to get through.Joel Monkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138493709986934852006-01-28T19:15:00.000-05:002006-01-28T19:15:00.000-05:00Joyce says she's heard other times, but using your...Joyce says she's heard other times, but using yours: 8:28 to 8:45 is 17 minutes. I've heard they could have fighter planes alongside it in 5 minutes. That gives them 12 minutes left to make a decision. And they might have sent the fighters as escort before confirming the highjacking, just to be sure, so that would be longer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138460543203223372006-01-28T10:02:00.000-05:002006-01-28T10:02:00.000-05:00Oooh, I like your choices of events. I forgot abo...Oooh, I like your choices of events. I forgot about O.J. I was milking the cows on an Irish dairy farm when the Irish dairyman said, "Hey I just heard on the radio that they think a famous American footballer killed his wife." I said, "Was it O.J. Simpson?" because that was the only famous football player I knew.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138455431317801752006-01-28T08:37:00.000-05:002006-01-28T08:37:00.000-05:00Joel: when president Kennedy was murdered, we wer...Joel: when president Kennedy was murdered, we were let out of school early - and of course took the school bus home, we did have school busses back then.<BR/> some of the important events listed werent high on my calendar - Lewinskly??? OJ? <BR/> Lennon's murder; I was working.<BR/>space shuttle: in graduate school.<BR/> Susan Smith, well since i was going to the town where this happened every other weekend then, knew the ARP minister who testified for her quite well at the time; but dont recall where i was when the word came out.<BR/> 9-11, somebody at work asked me to check the internet out for news stories, that something odd had happened.Steven Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14302958901026684328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138455366523828352006-01-28T08:36:00.000-05:002006-01-28T08:36:00.000-05:00I doubt that the air traffic controllers' tapes wo...I doubt that the air traffic controllers' tapes would have been that useful anyway. The first thing the terrorists did was turn off the transponders. (Wouldn't you?)<BR/><BR/>Except the pilot of flight 11 pushed a button to let the air traffic controllers hear what's going on in the cockpit. Judging by the way <A HREF="http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&startpos=700" REL="nofollow">this timeline</A> talks about it, the tapes of the cockpit, and the tapes of the air controllers trying to get through to him, still exist. At least the timeline quotes them. <BR/><BR/>Also, um, planes fly really fast. <BR/>The first flight veered off course at 8:20 a.m. and the FAA confirmed it as a hijacking at 8:28 a.m. <BR/><BR/>The first plane hit at 8:45 a.m.<BR/><BR/>I know fighter pilots are very fast. But are they THAT fast?<BR/>I mean, I've been looking back and forth at the timeline, and I think I've spent more time writing this email they they had to A. Make the decision to shoot down a plane with hundreds of people in it (which one would think would have taken long enough) B. Get up there and do it.<BR/><BR/>Also, all of these planes were OVER MAJOR CITIES, except the one in Pennsylvania, which was the one that the people on the plane took back over. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure they could have shot down the plane that crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37, but it had been circling over Washington. <BR/><BR/>Even if they had send planes up to escort the airliners down, there's no way the airliners would have done what the fighters told them to, it was a suicide mission after all. And if they did shoot down a plane, where the bleep is it going to fall? (Answer:Onto another part of the city. Like my house.)<BR/><BR/>Spoken like someone who lives eight miles from the Pentagon, I know, but...<BR/><BR/>CCChalicechickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138434345876342262006-01-28T02:45:00.000-05:002006-01-28T02:45:00.000-05:00Joyce says Joel is wrong -- planes were never allo...Joyce says Joel is wrong -- planes were never allowed anywhere near the trade towers. La Guardia is about 20 miles away. <BR/>Helicopters came close to the towers but not planes. <BR/>There were normally jets that could have been in place to escort a plane away within a very few minutes -- remember when a plane got near the White House? <BR/>Those commercial jets -- they knew where they were at all times -- they knew when they turned around. That's why they destroyed the air controller's tapes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138422628994959832006-01-27T23:30:00.000-05:002006-01-27T23:30:00.000-05:00Wow. That's a really evocative story, Joel.CCWow. That's a really evocative story, Joel.<BR/><BR/>CCChalicechickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138422353028333962006-01-27T23:25:00.000-05:002006-01-27T23:25:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Chalicechickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138421746128508192006-01-27T23:15:00.000-05:002006-01-27T23:15:00.000-05:00No, we haven't, and planes flew relatively close t...No, we haven't, and planes flew relatively close to the trade centers all the time- the idea that it was arranged for those particular planes to be allowed near is part if the "black helicopter" conspiracy lifestyle. If you stop and think of it logically, with an approach speed of some 350 MPH, and the airport only a few miles away, it would not be possible to intercept and shoot down a plane that got too close unless you had a fighter jet continuously circling the towers! If you're amused by such things, Crank.net has a wonderful collection.<BR/><BR/>>SC Universalist: I went home for lunch, living across the street from school (for you youngsters, back then parents chose houses to be close to schools; busing was later) so we heard about Kennedy getting shot on the radio while I was eating lunch. I remember that my mom had trouble getting the words out, so at first I thought she had said "shocked" rather than shot, and had the mental image of the President trying to get toast out of the toaster with a butterknife and getting shocked. (something I had been warned about 1,000 times) That was actually the third big news story I remember- I can also remember the Mercury flights and the Bay of Pigs.Joel Monkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138415224073265202006-01-27T21:27:00.000-05:002006-01-27T21:27:00.000-05:00Have we ever shot down a plane full of American ci...Have we ever shot down a plane full of American citizens?<BR/><BR/>CCChalicechickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138414363008119192006-01-27T21:12:00.000-05:002006-01-27T21:12:00.000-05:00I don't have much of a memory, so most of those I ...I don't have much of a memory, so most of those I am completely blank on. I remember when John Kennedy was assassinated I was home from high school for the day, sick. My mother came in the front door (unusual in itself) crying, saying the President had been killed. The radio had backed off on whether he was dead or not, but Mother was sure he was dead because they had said that earlier. <BR/>I was substituting in a dental office when the shuttle exploded -- we all stopped work to listen to the radio. <BR/>September 11, 2001 was a Tuesday. At about 5:30(?) am (California time) the DJ on the radio said a plane had hit the World Trade tower. Then she said, "It was a BIG one; that hole is huge!" so I ran into the other room and turned on the TV and called Joyce over. She said, as soon as I told her, "Terrorism!" Then we watched the second plane hit on live TV. I skipped my shower, and we watched until I had to go to work, and then we had the TV on all day in my operatory (it's on the ceiling). <BR/>Joyce had worked in the World Trade Tower and knew that no airplanes were allowed anywhere near them. It was very strange that they got close without being shot down, the usual expected response. Someone arranged for them NOT to be shot down....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138412902976573942006-01-27T20:48:00.000-05:002006-01-27T20:48:00.000-05:00Hmm.. time to make CC feel old.Deaths of John Lenn...Hmm.. time to make CC feel old.<BR/><BR/>Deaths of John Lennon and Elvis, Iranian Hostage Crisis, Shooting of President Reagan: Not born yet, or I was unaware of them.<BR/><BR/>When I heard that the Challenger exploded: Well after the fact. I was unaware of this one too.<BR/><BR/>The first major news story I was really aware of was Iraq I, and that was *very* vaguely. I don't even remember the Berlin Wall falling. While I do have a vague recollection of Yeltsin's rise to power, Iraq I was when I was in the third grade and it's the first major news story I really remember.<BR/><BR/>The OJ verdict: Back room of the library at my high school. It was during lunch/free period I forget the name of, so this was basically me, a couple other students, and some teachers. Verdict was given, it was rather anticlimatic, I left. Not a big deal.<BR/><BR/>Susan Smith had drowned her kids: Dunno. Didn't know CC at the time, so I had no reason for this to be significant.<BR/><BR/>Princess Diana died: Dunno.<BR/><BR/>The Monica Lewinsky story: Dunno.<BR/><BR/>September 11, 2001: I was waiting in the front lobby of the science building at college, between classes, and a professor - I don't remember which one - told me on the way by.<BR/><BR/>Katharine Hepburn died: Dunno.<BR/><BR/>MACARENA: Dunno.TheCSOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13158667972488862686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138412540344415962006-01-27T20:42:00.000-05:002006-01-27T20:42:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Chalicechickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07781469958573869914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138411832650983192006-01-27T20:30:00.000-05:002006-01-27T20:30:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.TheCSOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13158667972488862686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138410538052423882006-01-27T20:08:00.000-05:002006-01-27T20:08:00.000-05:00I was 7 years old, just dismissed from first grade...I was 7 years old, just dismissed from first grade for the day, and walking across the Martin's back lawn on my way from the school bus stop to my house, when third-grader Craig, who had just gotten a transistor radio for his birthday, let the radio down from his ear and shouted from the curb to the dispersing band of kids, "President Kennedy was shot and killed today!" I went into my kitchen to find my mother slumped over the kitchen table, weeping.faustohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858053354116695746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138410109187527012006-01-27T20:01:00.000-05:002006-01-27T20:01:00.000-05:00Joel: hey to be real old, you have to know where...Joel: hey to be real old, you have to know where you were when President Kennedy was murdered. (i was in school). My parents generation were asked - where were you when Pearl Harbor was bombed?Steven Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14302958901026684328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9864334.post-1138406788093812972006-01-27T19:06:00.000-05:002006-01-27T19:06:00.000-05:00When John Lennon was shot I was out of school, wor...When John Lennon was shot I was out of school, working, and married. *sigh* I can feel the wrinkles forming as I type.Joel Monkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.com